Monday, February 8, 2010

Ogre Kingdoms - new army book rumors part 3 (the rumorpocalyspe).

Holy crow! Been seeing a lot more rumors popping up regarding a new OK book, perhaps we will see it come May after all!

Hragged posted an excellent rumor round-up over on the Stronghold and I thought I would share it here with my thoughts on each. Some of these were previously posted.

So here we go, the rumors so far, in order of oldest to newest:

"No idea if this has been heard before, but I heard from someone in my gaming club at Warhammer World that Ogre Kingdoms are currently being worked on for release in 2010, and that - playtesting permitting - they might be getting a "Mammoth of the Plains" as a large monster (likely a mount/rare choice, like a stegadon)."

"Make of that what you will."
What do I make of this you ask? I highly doubt we will be seeing an Ogre Mammoth unit, but I do expect we'll see a Rhinox kit of some kind. I wonder if the King Rustbeard rules in issue number one of the Bellower had anything to do with this Mammoth nonsense? Hmmm...

"First of all there will be a new book this year. But don't hold your breath as we are looking towards the end of the year."

"Hunters will be able to take up to 4 sabretusks, this will let them break ranks. Also been told he will get the option for a giant cave bear style pet instead of sabretusks. The idea of being able to pull monsters towards himself after a successful shot was also brought up but he has no idea how far he will be able to pull it."

"Leadbelchers will have a unit champ who can shoot grapeshot when charged."

"Gut magic will get alot nastier. Did not say how."

"Big names will become like Vamp bloodline powers and not have to be taken from magic items allowance."

"Finally a vastly improved magic item list, with a few different banners worth taking. (Rumor of one that turns ward saves of any enemies in combat into reg saves)"
Not a lot of meat here but in my opinion this all sounds very reasonable. Looking forward to the Big Names being more like the Vampire bloodline powers but I am not sure that will actually happen. Recent books like Warriors of Chaos and Beastmen both have similar character specific things that cannot be duplicated and come out of the magic allotment. We'll see...

"T5 will never happen."

"No indeed, but a lot of other things will happen, including a few things that sensible people have dismissed."
This is in reference to the base Ogre toughness being increased from 4 to 5, which obviously can't happen. I do expect we will see some kind of included armor save and an overall increase in the potential armor save of troops across the board. Ironguts with a 4+ save for example would be amazing, especially if they received a bump up in WS.

"Look for better equipment, the option to fight in a new formation and significantly fewer restrictions."

"Shame about the changes to fear."

"I'm quite excited, both with regards to timing (though I'll have to juggle painting my chaos AND ogres while changing diapers) and the book contents. And the models."
From the same thread as the previous comment, the biggest thing to take from this rumor is "significantly fewer restrictions". About damn time!!! I wonder if we are talking about only 15 restrictions instead of the 22 or so the current book has?

"The army books being released nowadays are done so with 8th edition very much in mind."

"This is not the time for panic. Here, have an improve(d) gut plate."
Just a small mention, but it lends credence to the idea of a base "gut plate" armor save - something which should have been included the first time around if you ask me!

"Hunters will be able to take an upgrade so they become a moving bolt thrower. How this combines with the dragging monsters thing I do not know."

"Sabretusks will be able to be taken in packs of 5 or more."

"Bull charge will work the same as mino`s (almost a given I know) with no minimum distance."

"Scraplauncher no changes, maybe a slight points tweak."

"We WILL see rhinox riders. Same rules and points as the forge world rules more or less with small tweaks on both. He could not say how."
Posted these rumors a week or so ago, but since then there have been more mentions of similar ideas in the Ogre rumorville. Conflicting reports on the "move or fire" ability of the Hunter - hard to tell what the "truth" is at this time.

"OK is next and I've seen the work in progress butcher rules."

"unit upgrade, does different effects depending on who they eat. always have gnoblars effect of +1 to rally and tie breaker. ogre stats. two hand weapons. tooth gnoblar for one reroll."
GAH. Terrible spelling and grammar. I had to clean it up a bit with what I thought was the intention of the post - sorry but I do have some standards for this blog.

This is the first mention of changes to the Butcher and how Gut Magic works. I'll reserve my comments for later on in this rumorlanche.

"Just in from an inside source, GW will be creating a plastic rhinox kit when the new OK book comes out. (cant say when it will come out) With this kit you will be able to make a scrap launcher, rhinox ridden by a bull or a third variant that will be a gnoblar fighting platform. "
More Rhinox talk, this time with mention of a "gnoblar fighting platform"? Sounds pretty cool, maybe it will be something like a Stegadon for the Lizardmen (as Gnoblars are pretty similar to Skinks stats wise).

"yes there is a large 100+ piece, multi function kit for OK. it used a rhinox and its base. also the giant will have more than a "tacked on feel"
100+ pieces!? Dead lord, I hope they don't just turn the current Scraplauncher into a plastic kit and add some Ogre bits. I am all for this idea but I hope they don't increase the price of the kit too drastically by trying to make it the Rhinox "all in one" box.

Anything they can do to make the Slavegiant a better (and more Ogrey) choice is awesome in my book. Would love to have a second one but I have been waiting for a good reason!

"gnoblar hero choice, riding a giant"
While this could be really cool I just don't see it happening. Gnoblars are just too low in the OK pecking order to give them a Hero choice. Perhaps it will be a special character?
"a leadbelcher upgrade for tyrants, with grapeshot, worked out per warpthrower old rules."
This sounds reasonable to me and it echoes the mention of a similar upgrade for the Leadbelcher champions in an earlier rumor. I wonder if you can take this while mounted on a Rhinox? Hmm ...

"There will be no war mammoth in the revised book, this is just wishlisting by those not in the know. However rhinox will fill that role, sort of..."
Yeah, I just can't see a Mammoth in the Ogre Kingdoms book. They aren't really known to live in the mountains anyway, they are more of a great plains creature.
"2 uses rhinox kit, with one being a mount (with a irongut rider, with parts for a lord or butcher) and the other bieng a scraplauncher. the launcher also acts and a platform and chariot"

"hidden" rule for hunter and trappers. 4+ to see at long range"
Perhaps the "gnoblar fighting platform" is just in reference to changes made to the Scraplauncher? More chatter about the multi-purpose Rhinox kit, something that seems like a given for a new OK book no matter what.

Interesting mention of a "hidden" rule for the Hunter and Gnoblar Trappers. That would make the Trappers even more amazing!

"slavegiant 'barge' attack, d3 impact hits at s6 if charging father than 6 inches, plus 1 to roll on chart"
I have no idea what this "barge" attack means, but again anything to make the Slavegiant better is a great addition if you ask me!

"Will the giant be stubborn?"

"no. because they are beaten and broken."

"i do believe they get extra rules when near the tyrant..."

"Are the Rhinox riders (ruleswise) bought as a single model or is it a cavalry unit?"

"i see currently single"

"What do you think of the new models (i think you mentioned you had seen the greens)"

"Is there an Ogre Kingdoms pumbagor we need to look out for ?"

"i think the razorgor is a victim of bad paintjob and lighting. i rather like it. its different than anything else. i have to say that if you hate the razorgor then i fear you might hate the rhinox. i can say one thing. the scraplauncher will be a ***** better to assemble than the current one"

"Do you know, by chance, if OK are getting any new army wide special rule?"

"fixes to the ranking problem and a tighting to the spikefists. they have quite a few army wide rules"
Woah! That is a load of new "information" to digest. Let's take it from the top:

- New bonuses for keeping your Slavegiant close to the Tyrant? AWESOME. Who cares if they aren't Stubborn, they still have the highest Ld in the OK army.

- Single Rhinox Riders? That is a new one. I had always envisioned they would be in units like the Forgeworld/White Dwarf rules allow. Perhaps you will be able to add mounter Ogre characters to the "unit" of Rhinox?

- I am a little worried about the shaggy plastic Rhinox, but if the Forgeworld ones are anything to go by they will look great. I am all for an easier to assemble Scraplauncher - it would allow me to field more in my army!

- Not sure what the ranking comment means but the other must be in reference to the Ogre Ironfist. More on that later on in this rumor bomb...
"Are any of the current models other than the scraplauncher going to be replaced?"

"Lets just say if you wanted to start ogres before May, buy the battalion and a box of iron guts, you are gonna want to fill out the rest of your army with the new kits being released."
New kits meaning new character models? I really hope we see a plastic character kit but perhaps that is wishing for too much...

"dogs of war rule is in there. so far."

"i also might mention a certain halfling that got lost and now lives in an ogre camp, disguised as something icky no doubt"
Dogs of War meaning Ogres can still be included in other forces or is this some other rule known as "Dogs of War" instead?

I like the sound of this Halfling - perhaps it will be a special character of some kind.

"i can say that the battalion will change."

"bulls as of now are cheaper with more default gear. gnoblar are the same in points. a small change in int though. ironguts are now the elite unit of hungry ogres they are. new gorger, metal and disturbing. the magic items and big names are getting the same treatment as VC. butchers are getting overhauled completely."

"gutmagic is gone, replaced by bound spells that effect the unit the butcher is in, with a ranged spell. level equals spells known. they are bought (ingredients)as of now they also impart a MR equal to the level they are. lord is a level 3, hero can be 1 or 2. only one per unit. one item for lord causes enemy wizards to roll every dice they generate and lose them on a 6 (hungry maw) then the number eaten modifies the roll on the ogres miscast list. item last whole game and counts as an army wide rule. 100pts"
Apologies again but I have changed some of the typos and spelling mistakes - I am too OCD to let that stuff slide!

Another load of new "info" so we'll take it one at a time again:

- Changes to the Battalion would surprise me unless it includes removing some models to add the Rhinox kit or something else.

- Cheaper Bulls with more stuff is AWESOME.

- I can't imagine Gnoblars changing much in cost. I assume the mention of "int" is actually their Ini (initiative). Faster? Slower?

- Better Ironguts is almost a given but there is no information here as to how they got better. Increased WS? Increased armor save? Decreased cost? Are they Special choices now?

- I would love to see a new Gorger model as I really don't like the current one. I can't imagine a major change to their rules is in the works...

- Another mention of the Vampiric Powers-like Big Names. I will believe it when I see it.

- I think a re-working of Gut Magic was a must for the new book. I hope they manage to keep it useful and not too overpowered without shackling it with needless restrictions or increasing the amount of self-inflicted damage it can (or must) do. More on the power dice eating in this next rumor...

"it started out as a army wide rule. it was just there and on. it did nothing against dwarf armies or TK. it ham stringed PD heavy armies."

"now its current incarnation is a magic item at 100pts. it confers an army wide rule. like the warshrine. no roll at the beginning of anything. every turn the opponent rolls his/her PD or DD and throws away any 6. those are the maws now. dice held in items don't roll. unless they get used. the pool gets rolled. anytime your hot finger touches a dice to roll in the magic phase, on a 6 its gone, including MR. this does NOT effect the OK player. to be clear. for every 6 rolled you keep track of it. this modifies the roll on the miscast table. the new one you force the wizard to roll on. it looks like the OK one now.."

"of course I'm paraphrasing. and its subject to change or not even make it in. its one of the argued rules. they could leave it out and still be left with a very decent (fun) book."

So there was a special rule that ate power dice but it did nothing against two armies so they scrapped it and used it as a 100pt magic item that only the Lord level Butcher can take?

Could be interesting if they actually allow for the Slaughtermaster to be the army general. A magic heavy Ogre force?

"ill try to be more clear"

"your level equals the spells you can buy off a list of spells. the spells are ingredients. troll fat is an ingredient that gives regen. on a 2+ the butcher gets regen, takes a wound on a 6+, on a 6+ the units the butcher is in get regen, he takes a wound. each model takes a wound on a 6+ no saves, (maw is hungry)."

"once again paraphrased with the "anything can change at this point" disclaimer"

"to once again be clear"

"ingredients = spells bought"
This seems a little odd to me but then everything about Gut Magic is a little odd to begin with.

So instead of knowing all the spells from the Gut Magic lore the Butcher must purchase the spells by adding "ingredients"? It seems flavorful (pun intended) but I don't know that I like the idea of only knowing a few spells.

The example used for the Trollguts spell is quite confusing which leads me to believe this is a bunch of bunk.

"butcher will take a wound on a 6 when its eaten by him. always if its the unit. also its RIP as now. one effect a unit, at a time."

"i like the "headless thrashing gnoblar" MM myself"

"nowhere to run!" gnoblar rule that allows gnoblars to rally at the end of a flee move if they flee through ogres. they take d6 casualties."

"it has been also brought to my attention that there is 2 different sets of playtest rules out there. nothing too different."
This rumor source seems to "know" an awful lot. He claims the information comes from a set of playtest rules but I haven't known GW to outsource their playtesting in quite some time.

Still ... this is a rumor post so I will comment on what we have.

The Gnoblar rule sounds interesting and is something I can see actually having some effect on the game from a strategy perspective. They would need to remove the "Bicker" rule or increase the movement rate of Gnoblars to really make use of something like this though.

I have no idea what the "headless thrashing Gnoblar" bit is all about but it sounds like fun.

"no giant remake. no changes to plastics current. a *possible* plastic set for tyrant/slaughter master. i wont mention price but its on par with the minotaur lord, if it happens."
I would gladly pay Minotaur Lord prices for a plastic Ogre character kit. GW - make it happen!
"only few questions for you to clarify if you know....can characters ride a rhinox? do ogres have same base armour save for gut plates? and do leadbelcher change their fire rule? can the hunter shot and move?"

"yes, yes yes"

"and no but there is a few things that will make you feel better about that.
i don't think you will see a hunter without a few trapper units."
Some confirmation that we will see Ogre characters mounted on Rhinox, there will be some base armor save included for the Gut Plates, and Leadbelchers have changed how they fire. I sure hope they don't make the Leadies any worse ...

Another mention of the Hunter not being able to move and shoot, with a cryptic bit about Trappers being a mainstay with the unit. Perhaps a reference to this "Hidden" 4+ save?

Whew! That is a lot of rumors! Sorry this post went so long but I wanted to address all of this in one place. Going forward I will endeavor to only add/include new stuff as it comes up.

In the mean time, what do you think about these rumors?


inanecourage said...

I assume the 'ranking' thing is in reference to what constitutes ranks and a unit for Ogres. Perhaps they won't have to have a minimum of 5 wide, instead being able to field 3 or so?

Randroid said...

I assume that is what is being referenced - I don't see that being an army special rule. It would be too confusing to new players (why does this army get ranks while other large infantry don't?).

I do think we'll see a change in this for 8th though.

Elazar The Glorified said...

Interesting rumours. Whilst Beastmen gifts come from their magic item allowance Warriors got a separate allowance so it's a coin toss on which way that could go! :)

Chris said...

Thanks for putting this together, as a pretty new OK player I'll have a few reads though the rumours and try to digest them.