Yes The Truth Hurts Skrag the Slaughterer - Part 1.

Some of you may be familiar with the 40k-centric Warhammer Tactics blog Yes The Truth Hurts. It is run by 'Stelek' and for the most part consists of army list critiques and general commentary on the state of competitive gaming in GW systems. I read the blog once or twice a week - mostly as an exercise in restraint as I watch Stelek belittle and mock most everything in the "hobby", but also to learn a thing or two in the process.

Long story short, Stelek is a very aggressive and outspoken guy who will tell you exactly what he thinks and why he thinks you are "wrong" about what you think. I find this refreshing in a sea of "me too" and "yes man" style blogs that basically just rehash/regurgitate the latest news coming out of Games Workshop or other fansites. Even if I don't agree with his methods (or opinions for that matter) I appreciate the existence of Stelek's blog and the message.

So imagine my surprise when reading this recent post to another OK player regarding Skrag the Slaughterer on the site (reposted here without permission - sorry Stelek, hope you don't mind):

Endre Enyedy wrote:
Hello,

I know you don't think much of the Ogre Kingdoms, what with them being a very subpar army at the moment. However, the last time you hammered out a list a good portion of its core strategy (the Rune Maw banner) was shot down, so I was wondering how you would adjust the list to compensate, and how you'd grow it to 2250.

Also, what do you think of Skragg the Slaughterer? Word has it that the Skragg list is actually competitive at the tournament level, so I was wondering if you agreed and if so, what kind of list would you design around him?

Thanks,
Endre

Reply:

Well to make the Rune Maw banner work, you just add a unit of Gnoblars and redirect into them. It's not that big a deal really. lol

Skrag has a few weaknesses that you should be made aware of before you start thinking he's competitive.

1) Frenzy. You can pull him out of his unit with it (tricky, but doable).

2) He's targetable by any shooting or magic as he is not on an Ogre base.

3) While having more power dice is nice, Ogres only have a few useful spells so if you get them off successfully (which is more likely) it's then more difficult to get them off with Butchers. As a result, you tend to not bring extra Butchers along...and when Skrag falls to #1 or #2, all of your gut magic goes away.

4) Having a zillion gorgers is cute, but ultimately self-defeating as every pair of them you take is one less leadbelcher unit you can bring along. Just as you can defend against outflankers in 40K, you can do the same in Fantasy.

5) Knights love Skrag. Especially 1+ save Knights. You charge him and hit him with Chosen Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, or Grail Knights. Watch how fast he poofs.

So it isn't that he's competitive, it's that he's an entirely different build of Ogre Kingdoms. Once at a tournament he might work, but against your regular opponent's you are going to get your face smashed in once they figure out 'Kill The Big One, Win'.

I tried the list and it just doesn't work, sadly. Sorry.

To say I was dismayed at this response would be putting it lightly. Here was a poor OK playing soul looking for a little bit of guidance and this summary response is what he got? Not up to the usual level I would expect, but then again this is a WHFB article on a mostly 40k site. I felt it was important for a regular OK player, and newly-minted Skrag enthusiast, to "set the record straight" on Skrag and the OK army list. The following is my response.

Hey Stelek,

Been reading the site for awhile, mostly just spectating as I play WHFB and most of your content is 40k.

Saw the post yesterday about Skrag and thought I would chime in with my own first hand experience.

One of the biggest problems for the OK list in the current WHFB environment is Magic. It seems obvious that Gut Magic is central to making Ogre a true threat against most armies but the relatively low power level of the Butchers makes this quite difficult when everyone is tooling up to face down magic heavy VC/DE/DoC/WoC lists. The old "standard" used to be Tyrant + 3 Butchers but this has fallen by the wayside as Butchers simply can't keep up with a max of 8 PD (and that is with spending a minimum of 390 points and three character slots to make that happen).

Anyway, my long rambling point - Skrag makes the OK magic-heavy list easier and better to do. Taking Skrag is the only way to get a Slaughtermaster Lvl 4 caster into a sub-3k OK army list. Additionally it gives you two for one Special choice Gorgers which are great for negating one of the Ogres other major weaknesses - shooting.

Having played Ogres for the past year (only in tourneys for the past 6 months or so) I have to say I have been really happy with Skrag as my army general. He isn't the best at everything but I think he is well worth it for anyone who wants to actually make their Gut Magic useful in a game.

(posted my Skrag list here for him to pick on - see earlier Skrag posts if you are interested in the contents, this is getting too long already!)

Regarding your comments -

1) Frenzy. You can pull him out of his unit with it (tricky, but doable).

True. Anything with Frenzy is a liability. Luckily Skrag benefits from killing enemy models in CC and being in CC keeps him safe(r) from shooting and magic. Point him and the nearest "squishy" target and kill, kill, kill! I like to screen my Skrag with Gnoblar Trappers, using them to deal with and Fast Cav setting up to lure Skrag away from the fight.

2) He's targetable by any shooting or magic as he is not on an Ogre base.

Not sure what you mean by this? The OK book is a 6th edition book that makes mention of the older 6th edition shooting rules under the army wide rules section. All Ogres are targetable by magic and shooting - it is one of their biggest weaknesses!

3) While having more power dice is nice, Ogres only have a few useful
spells so if you get them off successfully (which is more likely) it's
then more difficult to get them off with Butchers. As a result, you
tend to not bring extra Butchers along...and when Skrag falls to #1 or
#2, all of your gut magic goes away.

Gut Magic is primarily a defensive magic meaning you need to have units close to your Butcher to make use of their abilities. Since Butchers can only throw 2 dice at any one Gut Magic spell I usually start my magic phase with their casting and leave Skrag for last as he can throw 3 dice at a spell.

Don't underestimate spells like Bonespitter which I have used to destroy many "invincible" feeling units of Knights (S2 no armor save, gotta roll 5+ and 6+ some time!). Braingobbler can be really great when used in conjunction with Skullmantle for the -1 Ld, and healing wounds on your Butchers is always useful.

I also don't understand the comment about bringing less Butchers. Really the only reason (aside from the Gorgers) to bring Skrag is if you want to go magic heavy - meaning you absolutely want to bring more Butchers to increase your chances of actually getting anything off! Skrag + 2 Butchers is 10 PD, nothing to scoff at especially when throwing 1 dice at each spell to draw DD out of your opponent and using the bound spell from a Bangstick to whittle away at your opponent's softer units.

4) Having a zillion gorgers is cute, but ultimately self-defeating as
every pair of them you take is one less leadbelcher unit you can bring
along. Just as you can defend against outflankers in 40K, you can do
the same in Fantasy.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this point as I find Leadbelchers to be hands down one of the worst units in the OK book. Their threat of damage is all they have and any skilled WHFB general will see right through that, either feeding them crap units or blasting them off the board with shooting/magic.

You don't need to max out on Gorgers to make Skrag's abilities worthwhile - I find that 4 Gorgers is plenty to get the job done. Sure my opponent can be thinking about ways of dealing with them from the start of deployment but ever gun or unit not facing towards my battle line or otherwise distracted is another unit of buffed up Ogres I can ram down their throat. Nothing beats a surprise Killing Blow on a souped up Lord from a ravenous, shit clawed monstrosity that came on the board Turn 2.

5) Knights love Skrag. Especially 1+ save Knights. You charge him and
hit him with Chosen Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, or Grail Knights.
Watch how fast he poofs.

And? If you are throwing Skrag at a unit of Knights without some kind of backup you shouldn't be playing him to begin with. Knights are a huge problem for all Ogres, Lords and Core alike. That's why I run my Maneaters with GW - Knights love getting hit with S7. Turns their "quaint" armor save to jelly. Don't forget Skrag also causes Terror which keeps some fast movers from hitting him (not the ones you listed but some).

Anyway, just wanted to chime in. Tried to leave this as a comment on the site but your comment system hates me.

Keep up the good work, always good to see the occasional Fantasy post (even if I don't agree with you on most of them)!

Best,

Randroid

So there you have it. Reading over this for the third time I can see a few holes/leaps in my logic, but I will get into that more in the second installment of YTTHStS. In the meantime, what do you fantasy players think? Has Stelek convinced you that Skrag is not worth it?