Yes The Truth Hurts Skrag the Slaughterer - Part 3.

The Skrag saga continues with this latest post from Stelek on YTTH. I have added the relevant sections from my last message into the body of Stelek's reply (hard to see what he is responding to otherwise). I have also included my response to his comment in the body of this post. We'll see how this works out...

Stelek wrote:

Thanks for the reply. Sorry the comment system fails ya. =/

I don't use the Trappers to literally screen Skrag (wouldn't do much good against Warmachines and shooters on hills) but I do use them in forests or other terrain that I want to use to screen him. That way they can march block or otherwise harrass the fast movers and hard hitters my opponent points his way.

Don't underestimate a Gnoblar! The trappers have never failed to make their points back for me and they have many uses (skirmish screen, march blocking, sharp stuffing large targets or lone characters, shooting bait, frenzy bait, hatred bait, etc). As long as you don't depend on them to do something they will usually surprise you - just never count on a Gnoblar!

1) Well maybe you have great success with 1 unit of unarmored gits, but I don't. People figure out to kill them or ignore them as their army needs.

As I said, if people are spending any points or turn phases on killing my Gnoblars I am all for it. The only thing I worry about with them is Flyers and Terror causers. I don't expect them to live, I expect them to re-direct charges into difficult terrain, march block, shoot stuff, bicker, and die. Sometimes I use them only for a turn 2 march block and then hold a table quarter - or maybe follow a big block and pelt it with Sharp Stuff until someone is forced to deal with the green bastards.

Your general attitude towards the Gnoblars is exactly what makes them so great. People disrespect them or write them off all together and that is when they are at their most dangerous. It is the law of averages, I am bound to roll 5's and 6's and you are bound to roll a 1. When combined you lose models (hopefully expensive ones) and I laugh. This isn't some bs mathhammer or wish on a star type situation, I am speaking from personal experience with Trappers. Point for point they are the best unit in the Ogre Kingdoms army book and I try and always take at least one unit in every list I write.

Ah, I see what you meant. I don't usually put him in a unit so I can use his higher US to my advantage by breaking ranks on a flank or rear charge.

2) He still gets singled out was kinda my point. Running him on his
own or in a unit, I can still pick him out. Have to come out from
behind the woods (and not charge) for 1 turn. That's usually all it
takes to down him.

The same could be said for almost any Ogre Character so I don't see this as being particularly relevant to Skrag.

I'm not going to disagree with you here because you are mostly right. The Ogre magic phase is all about the bluff - casting order is essential. You can throw one dice at all the Gut Magic spells in the game until they are successfully cast or fail (or you run out of dice). If I cast a spell with one dice and you dispel it, guess what I am casting it again on one dice. It is only when the spell is successfully cast (i.e. not dispelled or scrolled) that the casting cost goes up for the next Butcher.

Look, I am not saying that any Ogre list can compete with a heavy magic list but if you want to run Gut Magic and have it be in any way successful then Skrag is the way to go.

3) I realize how the OK magic works. It's woefully underpowered and always has been. Wasn't well thought out TBH. I can usually get some gut magic off with my OK list with just 2 butchers. Often as not, it's all about rolling a 3 and the other guy rolling a 2...which is a sad place to be for any magic user.

There are certainly flaws to be found in Gut Magic but to say it is "woefully underpowered" is a bit extreme. Underpowered compared to what - High Magic? Dark Magic? Chaos Magic? Gut Magic seems more in line with O&G magic and even that has its moments. Anyway, the point of my comment wasn't to talk about how Gut Magic fails but to praise Skrag for what he brings to the OK Magic Phase. Again - if you are planning on going "heavy" with Gut Magic you can't go wrong with Skrag and 2 or 3 Butchers. Short of taking a DoW caster it is the best you can get as an Ogre general. It seems a Gut Magic tactica would be worthwhile for new OK players though, perhaps I will write one sometime soon.

Bait and flee is the standard Ogre way of dealing with fast units - often using Leadbelchers for this very tactic. Personally I don't like them as I tend to do more damage to myself then my target. I don't like Gorgers that much either but they get much better when you can take more than 2 in a list. If you are shooting at 75 points with your guns or warmachine that is just another turn I can spend getting the charge on your units or setting up a flank charge.

4) Gorgers don't deny flanks or give you a flank bonus, so I ignore them and let them get on my flank and rear. Adds to the combat resolution for my side when I put wounds on your gorger. All they have going for them is T5. While 'scary' against say a block of Empire troops--I don't think that's a good example of why gorgers are good since empire troops are so shitty. Try it against Demons, CW, or Elves (either one). You'll get punched in the balls real quick.

Not in the balls!!

Who said anything about flank charging with my Gorger? "Setting up a flank charge" here was in reference to Ogre units. I do sometimes charge my Gorgers into crappy troop blocks who can't hurt them (mmm Marauders taste like chicken). Pretty much a guaranteed 2 turn tar pit against most troops with the exception of truly elite forces. Again, it is about slowing down the enemy advance, re-redirecting, and misdirection. The kill is a secondary benefit (although Killing Blow always helps scare away the lone characters mucking about), the versatility and tactics options Gorgers allow is what makes them a decent choice.

Agreed - Skrag does not charge Knights unless they have been baited for him to be in a position to. And to say Knights don't give a crap about Maneaters is a little ridiculous. Decent WS, high T and S, 4-5 attacks each with Stubborn and ItP?! Of course a Knight wants to avoid that (or at least get the charge). Throw in a Bruiser with BSB or other magic weapon and you have one nasty combat block. I've obliterated many units of Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, Black Knights, etc ... with ME.

5) If you are charging knights with maneaters, then sure you might win. Didn't you already win the game though, because you ARE charging slow ass shit into fast shit? Knights should always charge you in power checkers. Failure to do so when Ogres cannot stop it in any way, well...that's your opponents failing at the basics imo.

Right. Well I don't want to fall back on the "your opponent sucks" argument so let's talk real strategy here. Everything (aside from Gnoblars and Yhetees) in the Ogre army has M6. That puts Ogres at a disadvantage to every army who has access to Cav. Do you expect Ogres to always get charged by these units with higher Movement? How do you deal with them? In your 2,250 list you have many units of Leadbelchers. I assume you use these to deal with Cav based on your previous comments regarding Skrag/my list.

The way I deal with Cav is bait. Put units out there, make a tasty target, flee with units they aren't expecting and get the counter-charge (hopefully with Flank support). Sometimes I do rely on bad charge declarations - it is an annoying little dance in the middle of the board as one side waits for the other to make a mistake and get charged. This is the only way I know how to win with Ogres. If you have some other ideas to share I would love to hear them!

Large blast template with Killing Blow doesn't scare you? The must charge (I call it "crappy frenzy") issue is a problem yes, but the Scraplauncher can hold it's own in most combats (assuming there isn't a S7 attack in the mix). Flyers and Fast Cav can give it a hard time but there is nothing like killing an entire unit of Empire troops or Warriors of Chaos with a Scraplauncher. Good times ...

6) Nope, not really. Gotta hit me first, assuming I don't park a skirmishing unit in your LOS and in charge range of you (14") and make you unable to fire. Yeah, I don't do that all the time. ;)

Fair enough. It is a decent tactic, I use it all the time with the Trappers you seem to think are a waste. Very unlikely a unit of Skirmishers are going to hold up to the charge of the Rhinox. If they flee I migth have more problems but I might also just catch them and eliminate the threat.

The only real worry for me and my Scraplauncher is S7 warmachines or spells. If I only get one or two shots with it that's fine. My guesses are usually spot on (if only my scatter die would stop coming up 8 and 10) and it only takes one to get the job done. I don't expect you change your tune until you see one or two Scraplaunchers in action - I know I didn't!

Trappers Scout and start in cover (typically a forest). They don't get shot on Turn 1 but they might pop out and blast a unit of Fast Cav to death with 16 shots.

7) Except against the competitive armies, you DO get shot--by magic. There is lots of magic that requires no line of sight, and virtually all armies bring it. I don't hold much weight in trappers firing on fast cav (move and multiple shot? assuming I'm dumb enough to be in range of your unit--which is another basics failure btw) and killing them.

Okay, we seem to be talking in circles now. So you don't care about my Trappers but you are going to waste an AoE spell on them? Okay, great! See my first point about Trappers (and Gnoblars in general) - I don't care if you are shooting them with guns, bows, magic, dinosaurs, whatever. If they are being shot instead of my 35+ points each Ogres they are doing their job!

Same with your movement. If you are changing your deployment or move to avoid my Trappers, well to steal a line from you "another basics failure btw". Trappers have Multiple Thrown Weapons meaning they can move and shoot without penalty (for 9-10 shots needing 4's) or multi-shot (for 18-20 shots needing 5's). Both wound on 5's and 6's mostly. Again, until you have seen a unit of Trappers wipe out a unit of Fast Cav or take off a Knight or two you can't appreciate what I am saying. It happens. I do it almost every game I play with Ogres.

I think for the most part we agree on things, especially trying to make a "competitive" list for Ogres. But I love my fatties (my first army and lucky for me I don't really give a crap about winning. If I want to win I just play my Vampire Counts. :D

Besides where is the challenge or fun in playing one of the "broken" and "competitive" lists? Seems boring to me...

I don't know about not being fun, for many players Fantasy isn't 'fun' period. I enjoy my goblin army very much. They are much maligned but I've done well with them.

While my comment was made in jest, it looks like I stirred up the bee's nest on this - I will get back to this thought in my next post.

I have yet to win a game against Daemons with Ogres.

I have yet to lose a game against Vampire Counts or Elves but WoC are about 60/40 for me at the moment.

8) I've beaten Demons but tbh the majority of demon players locally suck at the game so it means nothing. No idea how you are beating good Elf lists, Ogres are totally outclassed. What, ya gonna charge them? lol Is that before or after you get fried by Teclis? Or a Supreme Sorceress? ;) WoC make me giggle but sadly they have the WS, S, and saves to beat ogre face. If they run them like Dwarfs, it's a serious bitch for OK. I'll try to incorporate more Fantasy. A lot of the readers don't seem to like it lol.

Ogres are outclassed against most armies though, doesn't mean you can't beat them with enough practice and patience! To be fair I have only played 4 or maybe 5 HE players. They gave me a hard time, no doubt about that, but most anything T3 makes me happy in CC. Daemons are another story altogether...

I think you need more Fantasy tactics on your site. Take a break from all the 40k list bashing to explore the wonderful (and broken) world of Fantasy lists! And since when have you tried to do things that your readers liked?! Heheh...

Note: Since Stelek's initial post there have been a few additional comments made that I will respond to in my next post. To be continued...

Yes The Truth Hurts Skrag the Slaughterer - Part 2.

The continuation of YTTHStS as seen in this post on Yes The Truth Hurts. Stelek's reply to my defense of Skrag the Slaughterer (and perhaps the OK army in general?) is in that article but I have included it as quotes in my own response below.

Hey Stelek,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my Ogre ramblings. I tried posting my comments on the YTTH site again but that Js-kit stuff won't have anything to do with me (not my blog, blogger id, google id, Js-kit id). Anyway, aside from that I had some comments on your response. I probably could have made a few of my points clearer the first time around, I will try to be clearer this time around.

1) Gnoblar trappers are easy to remove. Magic missiles sends them packing. Being unable to charge until the trappers move out of the way is called telegraphing your moves. I know it's coming, and it's easy enough to counter. So I don't see the point of trying to hide him when you really can't.

I don't use the Trappers to literally screen Skrag (wouldn't do much good against Warmachines and shooters on hills) but I do use them in forests or other terrain that I want to use to screen him. That way they can march block or otherwise harass the fast movers and hard hitters my opponent points his way.

Don't underestimate a Gnoblar! The trappers have never failed to make their points back for me and they have many uses (skirmish screen, march blocking, sharp stuffing large targets or lone characters, shooting bait, frenzy bait, hatred bait, etc). As long as you don't depend on them to do something they will usually surprise you - just never count on a Gnoblar!

2) I mean per the answers GW has given on the OK book, you cannot hide Skrag in a unit of Ogres. That means you can pick him out and kill him. That's why he sucks, you know. He's great against armies that can't shoot or magic him to death, but then--those are armies you have a solid chance against because those armies suck, right?

Ah, I see what you meant. I don't usually put him in a unit so I can use his higher US to my advantage by breaking ranks on a flank or rear charge.

3) Against competitive armies with a heavy magic bent, you can have two Skrags and you won't be casting shit. You let the Ogre player get off anything but regen (unless you have fire for that unit, then nevermind) or stubborn (especially if you are about to hit them with a big beater unit); I don't know about you but having 10 PD does not impress. You still need a minimum score to cast the first one, then a higher score to cast the second. If I let you cast regen on a shitty unit, then YOU start burning PD to try and cast it (you can NOT try to cast a spell you cannot actually cast because a single PD won't power it) since it's at a higher level. At which point, I stop it. I don't care about the other 4 spells, if you think they are 'good' then you need to play say Dark Elf, High Elf, or Demonic magic. 6 or 7 great spells, not shitty filler content like the OK have.

I'm not going to disagree with you here because you are mostly right. The Ogre magic phase is all about the bluff - casting order is essential. You can throw one dice at all the Gut Magic spells in the game until they are successfully cast or fail (or you run out of dice). If I cast a spell with one dice and you dispel it, guess what I am casting it again on one dice. It is only when the spell is successfully cast (i.e. not dispelled or scrolled) that the casting cost goes up for the next Butcher.

Look, I am not saying that any Ogre list can compete with a heavy magic list but if you want to run Gut Magic and have it be in any way successful then Skrag is the way to go.

4) Leadbelchers are your only answer to many fast units, and your only way to whittle strong units down. If you are relying on gut magic or close combat to kill strong enemy units, you play against really really bad fantasy players. Gorgers are random, and don't scare experienced players. No matter how many you have. I will gladly accept you having a 300 point deficit on turn 1, kill Skrag, and deal with the gorgers when they show up. It's not hard to push them to the edges of the game and ignore them the entire game. Add in fast cav or shooty skirmishers, and gorgers are silly bad.

Bait and flee is the standard Ogre way of dealing with fast units - often using Leadbelchers for this very tactic. Personally I don't like them as I tend to do more damage to myself then my target. I don't like Gorgers that much either but they get much better when you can take more than 2 in a list. If you are shooting at 75 points with your guns or warmachine that is just another turn I can spend getting the charge on your units or setting up a flank charge.

5) You missed the point. Skrag doesn't charge Knights. The Knights charge Skrag. Skrag dies, and the rest of the Ogres get run down. If you are charging Skrag into Knights, you are once again playing really really bad Fantasy players. Knights don't give a crap about your maneaters. I know from experience. The good ones suffer less than 2 wounds from each Maneaters, assuming the Maneaters don't just get beat to death on the charge (because for your 86 or 90 points on ONE maneater, other people get 3-4 knights. just no contest). With a -4 modifier, you get a knight a turn. If they know what they are doing, they kill Skrag on the charge OR just wipe your Maneaters out and run him down when he flees from combat. Either way, your Lord is dead to a unit that costs way way less than you do.

Agreed - Skrag does not charge Knights unless they have been baited for him to be in a position to. And to say Knights don't give a crap about Maneaters is a little ridiculous. Decent WS, high T and S, 4-5 attacks each with Stubborn and ItP?! Of course a Knight wants to avoid that (or at least get the charge). Throw in a Bruiser with BSB or other magic weapon and you have one nasty combat block. I've obliterated many units of Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, Black Knights, etc ... with ME.

6) A scraplauncher has the same 'must charge' issues, which is fun to take advantage of. It's also not scary.

Large blast template with Killing Blow doesn't scare you? The must charge (I call it "crappy frenzy") issue is a problem yes, but the Scraplauncher can hold it's own in most combats (assuming there isn't a S7 attack in the mix). Flyers and Fast Cav can give it a hard time but there is nothing like killing an entire unit of Empire troops or Warriors of Chaos with a Scraplauncher. Good times ...

7) 8 trappers? That survives 1 turn? Then Skrag gets shot to pieces? Come on.

Trappers Scout and start in cover (typically a forest). They don't get shot on Turn 1 but they might pop out and blast a unit of Fast Cav to death with 16 shots.

I think we'll just have to disagree on Skrag. Trying to make a competitive army out of OK is ultimately a futile exercise.

I think for the most part we agree on things, especially trying to make a "competitive" list for Ogres. But I love my fatties (my first army and lucky for me I don't really give a crap about winning. If I want to win I just play my Vampire Counts. :D

Besides where is the challenge or fun in playing one of the "broken" and "competitive" lists? Seems boring to me ...

Dark Elves, High Elves, Vampire Counts, Chaos, and Demons are just so far above it it's not funny.

Note I mentioned VC and Chaos Warriors...both armies that are NOT in the same class as the pointy ears or demons, not by a long shot. If they can manhandle you...man, that's not good.

I have yet to win a game against Daemons with Ogres.

I have yet to lose a game against Vampire Counts or Elves but WoC are about 60/40 for me at the moment.

Fantasy debates are fun!

I agree! Would love to see more Fantasy content on YTTH. I don't think the tactics in WHFB are as cut and dry as they are in 40k - many different ways you can go and still find some success.

So my thoughts in summary - Ogres are not super-competitive (but you can make them work if you try hard). If you want to have any real success with Gut Magic Skrag is a good option (10-12 PD is the most you are going to get with OK at sub-3k). Don't trust a Gnoblar but don't be shocked when they kill the crap out of your opponent's expensive units.

I think that about covers it. Next time around perhaps I will comment on the OK list you have posted in your lists. Interested to hear why you made certain choices.

Keep up the good work.

Randroid aka Randall

Still awaiting a second response - in the meantime you can read Stelek's 2,250 Ogre Kingdoms list here. I see some favorite and not so favorite things in this list. Hell, it might be worth trying ! At least that way I can say for sure I don't like it.

Yes The Truth Hurts Skrag the Slaughterer - Part 1.

Some of you may be familiar with the 40k-centric Warhammer Tactics blog Yes The Truth Hurts. It is run by 'Stelek' and for the most part consists of army list critiques and general commentary on the state of competitive gaming in GW systems. I read the blog once or twice a week - mostly as an exercise in restraint as I watch Stelek belittle and mock most everything in the "hobby", but also to learn a thing or two in the process.

Long story short, Stelek is a very aggressive and outspoken guy who will tell you exactly what he thinks and why he thinks you are "wrong" about what you think. I find this refreshing in a sea of "me too" and "yes man" style blogs that basically just rehash/regurgitate the latest news coming out of Games Workshop or other fansites. Even if I don't agree with his methods (or opinions for that matter) I appreciate the existence of Stelek's blog and the message.

So imagine my surprise when reading this recent post to another OK player regarding Skrag the Slaughterer on the site (reposted here without permission - sorry Stelek, hope you don't mind):

Endre Enyedy wrote:
Hello,

I know you don't think much of the Ogre Kingdoms, what with them being a very subpar army at the moment. However, the last time you hammered out a list a good portion of its core strategy (the Rune Maw banner) was shot down, so I was wondering how you would adjust the list to compensate, and how you'd grow it to 2250.

Also, what do you think of Skragg the Slaughterer? Word has it that the Skragg list is actually competitive at the tournament level, so I was wondering if you agreed and if so, what kind of list would you design around him?

Thanks,
Endre

Reply:

Well to make the Rune Maw banner work, you just add a unit of Gnoblars and redirect into them. It's not that big a deal really. lol

Skrag has a few weaknesses that you should be made aware of before you start thinking he's competitive.

1) Frenzy. You can pull him out of his unit with it (tricky, but doable).

2) He's targetable by any shooting or magic as he is not on an Ogre base.

3) While having more power dice is nice, Ogres only have a few useful spells so if you get them off successfully (which is more likely) it's then more difficult to get them off with Butchers. As a result, you tend to not bring extra Butchers along...and when Skrag falls to #1 or #2, all of your gut magic goes away.

4) Having a zillion gorgers is cute, but ultimately self-defeating as every pair of them you take is one less leadbelcher unit you can bring along. Just as you can defend against outflankers in 40K, you can do the same in Fantasy.

5) Knights love Skrag. Especially 1+ save Knights. You charge him and hit him with Chosen Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, or Grail Knights. Watch how fast he poofs.

So it isn't that he's competitive, it's that he's an entirely different build of Ogre Kingdoms. Once at a tournament he might work, but against your regular opponent's you are going to get your face smashed in once they figure out 'Kill The Big One, Win'.

I tried the list and it just doesn't work, sadly. Sorry.

To say I was dismayed at this response would be putting it lightly. Here was a poor OK playing soul looking for a little bit of guidance and this summary response is what he got? Not up to the usual level I would expect, but then again this is a WHFB article on a mostly 40k site. I felt it was important for a regular OK player, and newly-minted Skrag enthusiast, to "set the record straight" on Skrag and the OK army list. The following is my response.

Hey Stelek,

Been reading the site for awhile, mostly just spectating as I play WHFB and most of your content is 40k.

Saw the post yesterday about Skrag and thought I would chime in with my own first hand experience.

One of the biggest problems for the OK list in the current WHFB environment is Magic. It seems obvious that Gut Magic is central to making Ogre a true threat against most armies but the relatively low power level of the Butchers makes this quite difficult when everyone is tooling up to face down magic heavy VC/DE/DoC/WoC lists. The old "standard" used to be Tyrant + 3 Butchers but this has fallen by the wayside as Butchers simply can't keep up with a max of 8 PD (and that is with spending a minimum of 390 points and three character slots to make that happen).

Anyway, my long rambling point - Skrag makes the OK magic-heavy list easier and better to do. Taking Skrag is the only way to get a Slaughtermaster Lvl 4 caster into a sub-3k OK army list. Additionally it gives you two for one Special choice Gorgers which are great for negating one of the Ogres other major weaknesses - shooting.

Having played Ogres for the past year (only in tourneys for the past 6 months or so) I have to say I have been really happy with Skrag as my army general. He isn't the best at everything but I think he is well worth it for anyone who wants to actually make their Gut Magic useful in a game.

(posted my Skrag list here for him to pick on - see earlier Skrag posts if you are interested in the contents, this is getting too long already!)

Regarding your comments -

1) Frenzy. You can pull him out of his unit with it (tricky, but doable).

True. Anything with Frenzy is a liability. Luckily Skrag benefits from killing enemy models in CC and being in CC keeps him safe(r) from shooting and magic. Point him and the nearest "squishy" target and kill, kill, kill! I like to screen my Skrag with Gnoblar Trappers, using them to deal with and Fast Cav setting up to lure Skrag away from the fight.

2) He's targetable by any shooting or magic as he is not on an Ogre base.

Not sure what you mean by this? The OK book is a 6th edition book that makes mention of the older 6th edition shooting rules under the army wide rules section. All Ogres are targetable by magic and shooting - it is one of their biggest weaknesses!

3) While having more power dice is nice, Ogres only have a few useful
spells so if you get them off successfully (which is more likely) it's
then more difficult to get them off with Butchers. As a result, you
tend to not bring extra Butchers along...and when Skrag falls to #1 or
#2, all of your gut magic goes away.

Gut Magic is primarily a defensive magic meaning you need to have units close to your Butcher to make use of their abilities. Since Butchers can only throw 2 dice at any one Gut Magic spell I usually start my magic phase with their casting and leave Skrag for last as he can throw 3 dice at a spell.

Don't underestimate spells like Bonespitter which I have used to destroy many "invincible" feeling units of Knights (S2 no armor save, gotta roll 5+ and 6+ some time!). Braingobbler can be really great when used in conjunction with Skullmantle for the -1 Ld, and healing wounds on your Butchers is always useful.

I also don't understand the comment about bringing less Butchers. Really the only reason (aside from the Gorgers) to bring Skrag is if you want to go magic heavy - meaning you absolutely want to bring more Butchers to increase your chances of actually getting anything off! Skrag + 2 Butchers is 10 PD, nothing to scoff at especially when throwing 1 dice at each spell to draw DD out of your opponent and using the bound spell from a Bangstick to whittle away at your opponent's softer units.

4) Having a zillion gorgers is cute, but ultimately self-defeating as
every pair of them you take is one less leadbelcher unit you can bring
along. Just as you can defend against outflankers in 40K, you can do
the same in Fantasy.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this point as I find Leadbelchers to be hands down one of the worst units in the OK book. Their threat of damage is all they have and any skilled WHFB general will see right through that, either feeding them crap units or blasting them off the board with shooting/magic.

You don't need to max out on Gorgers to make Skrag's abilities worthwhile - I find that 4 Gorgers is plenty to get the job done. Sure my opponent can be thinking about ways of dealing with them from the start of deployment but ever gun or unit not facing towards my battle line or otherwise distracted is another unit of buffed up Ogres I can ram down their throat. Nothing beats a surprise Killing Blow on a souped up Lord from a ravenous, shit clawed monstrosity that came on the board Turn 2.

5) Knights love Skrag. Especially 1+ save Knights. You charge him and
hit him with Chosen Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, or Grail Knights.
Watch how fast he poofs.

And? If you are throwing Skrag at a unit of Knights without some kind of backup you shouldn't be playing him to begin with. Knights are a huge problem for all Ogres, Lords and Core alike. That's why I run my Maneaters with GW - Knights love getting hit with S7. Turns their "quaint" armor save to jelly. Don't forget Skrag also causes Terror which keeps some fast movers from hitting him (not the ones you listed but some).

Anyway, just wanted to chime in. Tried to leave this as a comment on the site but your comment system hates me.

Keep up the good work, always good to see the occasional Fantasy post (even if I don't agree with you on most of them)!

Best,

Randroid

So there you have it. Reading over this for the third time I can see a few holes/leaps in my logic, but I will get into that more in the second installment of YTTHStS. In the meantime, what do you fantasy players think? Has Stelek convinced you that Skrag is not worth it?